Camping Camper

Question:

> >>You’d think you’d get that all worked out on the trail… >subject at hand? Do you honestly consider that last snippet to be a positive >contribution to the conversation? > Absolutely.

third party, as he poses to be. He is actually someone who gets off by posting flame bait. In this current venture he is piggy-backing on Vandeman. He himself gave evidence that this is the case with his line, >Or perhaps you can read the URLs above or the scientific >studies on which they are based and conclude that hiking

Fishing is so much more fun now that I use the right bait. J — Bongo Boy never litters! [www.bongoboy.com] Dave Blake

Response:

.Yes, but your relative Yakovov Vandeman PAID FOR THE ACCOUNT!!!! Not really. It was free! — I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8 years fighting auto dependence and road construction.) http://www.imaja.com/change/environment/mvarticles

Response:

>>It was an AOL employee who told Todd Ourston. It’s in the FAQ. BTW, I >Seems to me that this "AOL employee" had violated a company trust. Do we know >his name? IF AOL employees are releasing personal information about AOL account >holders it opens up an entirely new series of questions.

And a set of questions entirely unrelated to this newsgroup. Take it somewhere else. >seriously doubt that being told this will change your opinion on the >situation, like Mike, you’ve already closed your mind on this topic and >Well Brad I wouldn’t be so quick to make judgements like that. No, I’m not >convinced you’re being harassed as I believe that you could, if you chose to, >ignore Mr. Vandeman or enter into reasonable discussion with him.

Actually, I have tried to enter a reasonable conversation with him. I asked questions, I asked for sources of verification of some of his assertions. I didn’t insult him, or call him names (though previously he had called me both "dishonest" and a "killer"). His response was that I never e-mail him again. Period. I chose to attempt to start a reasonable conversation, and he flatly rejected it. That’s certainly his right; however, at this point, I feel free to start making judgements. >But you guys >find some perverse pleasure in posting some really virulent and hateful stuff. >You’d think you’d get that all worked out on the trail…

Be a little more specific: who exactly are "you guys"? I’m not posting virulent or hateful stuff. I am frustrated that Mr. Vandeman apparently makes claims of "fact" but refuses to provide anything approaching a rigorious defense of those "facts". And, incidentally, didn’t you, just a few days back, say something to the effect that the mud-slinging should stop, and the conversation stick to the subject at hand? Do you honestly consider that last snippet to be a positive contribution to the conversation? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->ps: I had personal email from AOL telling me that Vandeman’s accounts there >(mjvvv and dotmorriso) were both canceled, and so did Dave Blake. It’s >a big conspiracy, just like the MEN IN THE BLACK HELICOPTERS. >Would you care to share that with us again, headers and all, or is it also part >of the FAQ? >J >– >Bongo Boy is the guy your parents warned you about! [www.bongoboy.com]

Response:

>Read the FAQ. Again, I have serious doubts that any amount of fact will have >the slightest influence on your opinions in this matter.

Well, it looks like I’ve been told! J — Bongo Boy is the guy your parents warned you about! [www.bongoboy.com]

Response:

>>You’d think you’d get that all worked out on the trail… >subject at hand? Do you honestly consider that last snippet to be a positive >contribution to the conversation?

Absolutely. J — Bongo Boy is the guy your parents warned you about! [www.bongoboy.com]

Response:

. .>It was an AOL employee who told Todd Ourston. It’s in the FAQ. BTW, I . .Seems to me that this "AOL employee" had violated a company trust. Do we know .his name? IF AOL employees are releasing personal information about AOL account .holders it opens up an entirely new series of questions. Yes, doesn’t it?! I wonder how many of their 9 million subscribers (most of whom are probably just using their free disks) would still be there, if they knew that! They have told me point-blank that they do not give out information about who their subscribers are. P.S. What are the relevant AOL newsgroups? — I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8 years fighting auto dependence and road construction.) http://www.imaja.com/change/environment/mvarticles

Response:

.> .>Not according to the law. If you post lies, you are liable. Please .>remove Lance Montauk’s letter, BTW. It is libelous. Why did you remove .>the Bike article? Because it’s libelous, or because you violated .>copyright?Or both? . .If I post lies…. . .I do not. Lance Montauk’s letter stays. It contains .useful information about you, and no lies that I am .aware of. "Looney"? "Bigot"? The burden of proof is on you. The letter is libelous. — I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8 years fighting auto dependence and road construction.) http://www.imaja.com/change/environment/mvarticles

Response:

.>>The evidence. The first time Mike got access from AOL revoked, we .>>were told that short of credit card fraud, Mike Vandeman would not .>>get another account there. .> .>I’m curious. You say "we were told…" Who told us? Was it an AOL employee? . . .It is all in the FAQ at .http://www.keck.ucsf.edu/~dblake/vand.html . .Including the name of the AOL employee who made that .remark. The recent remark? Where? I don’t see it. — I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8 years fighting auto dependence and road construction.) http://www.imaja.com/change/environment/mvarticles

Response:

.

. .>>It was an AOL employee who told Todd Ourston. It’s in the FAQ. BTW, I . .>Seems to me that this "AOL employee" had violated a company trust. Do we know .>his name? IF AOL employees are releasing personal information about AOL account .>holders it opens up an entirely new series of questions. . .Have you even taken the time to read the FAQ? It’s all in there, including .the name of the person. BTW, love your double standard here about violating .a company trust. It’s OK for Vandeman to have used pacbell.com accounts in .the past to have spammed the hell out of cycling.org mailing lists, Yes, use of pacbell.com was approved by a high-level Pac Bell manager.  But what I can’t ignore is Vandeman’s calculated actions against .MTB mailing list participants. All that Dot did was subscribe to the lists & download the addresses, JUST AS ANY OTHER PERSON CAN!  If you would ever take one second in your .day to review the FAQ, perhaps you’d understand. Vandeman has mailbombed .the lists, used multiple AOL accounts to spam the lists, You don’t have the evidence to prove this, and so you shouldn’t say it.  and has extracted .the names of 3500 list users and requested on Usenet that people harrass .the list users and contact their employers and try to get them fired. They tried to get THEMSELVES fired by violating their own company’s policy. Be honest! .>find some perverse pleasure in posting some really virulent and hateful stuff. .>You’d think you’d get that all worked out on the trail… . .Do yourself a favor and read the FAQ before you accuse us of being ."virulent and hateful". I did. It is full of lies, which Dave Blake refuses to remove.  There are pages and pages of excerpts from .Vandeman’s postings where he accuses MTB riders of being everything from .the the devil himself to a litany of how many ways you can call a person .a "liar" (Vandeman’s favorite word).   The truth is protected by the First Amendment. — I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8 years fighting auto dependence and road construction.) http://www.imaja.com/change/environment/mvarticles

Response:

.I chose to attempt to start a reasonable conversation, and he flatly .rejected it. That’s certainly his right; however, at this point, I feel free .to start making judgements. Really? What could you conclude from that?! — I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8 years fighting auto dependence and road construction.) http://www.imaja.com/change/environment/mvarticles

Response:

>Not according to the law. If you post lies, you are liable. Please >remove Lance Montauk’s letter, BTW. It is libelous. Why did you remove >the Bike article? Because it’s libelous, or because you violated >copyright?Or both?

If I post lies…. I do not. Lance Montauk’s letter stays. It contains useful information about you, and no lies that I am aware of. Lance clearly donated it to be used in such circumstances. I am not even certain what exactly you take offense with. The behavior he describes fits EXACTLY your behavior on this newsgroup. But, here is my favorite part of that letter. ——- … P.S.  yes, he has a car parked in his driveway, … ——- I did NOT remove the BIKE article. I never had in in the FAQ. I had a pointer. The person whose site contained the BIKE article himself removed it for reasons I do not know. In fact, I only removed the pointer after I noticed the link was dead. As I have said many times in the past, if you can demonstrate that something in the FAQ is a lie, I will remove it. If it is clearly someone’s justified opinion of you, it stays. — Dave Blake http://www.keck.ucsf.edu/~dblake/

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >.>.I’ve been subscribing to rbo-r for a few months now and have seen the name >.>.Mike Vandeman (always in negative context) a zillion times posted and >.still >.>.have no idea who the fuck this dude is. Fill me in? >. >.>One of the few people with the guts to tell the truth about mountain >.>biking. >. >.The truth ? The truth ? You can’t handle the truth !! >. >.You used a false name on a credit card to resubscribe to AOL. >.Liar. >That’s a lie. Besides, AOL doesn’t give out that information, >obviously.

Mike, would you liek the NAME on the credit card, as well as the ADDRESS you used, with the Morrison account?  I bekieve it was Yakovav Vandeman.   You are SO right, they DONT give it out, I had to take the AOL employee out to lunch and give her a shell account on my ISP to get the inofrmation.   Dont worry, she didnt give me your credit card number!!!!!! >.You spammed dozens of cycling.org mailing lists with 23K of >."Wildlife and the Ecocity", and denied posting those emails >Sending a message after subscribing to a list is not "spamming".

No, but getting the mial list members email addresses, and sending us "How to Spam" email is.  DONT FORGETE…. a LOT of us got your email! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->.You forged email from Brad Anders to make it look as though >.he sends email to your work account. He kept the original >.email message to show you to be what you are. Liar. >Pure BS. >.You claimed that when a biker hops on a bike, the pressure >.on the contact patch increases to 7 or 8 times that of >.the internal tire pressure before loading. It does not. >.Liar. >I never said that. >.You claim you are not harassing this newsgroup when there >.are records of hundreds of uncalled for insults, >.accusations of lying (mostly false), and, quite simply, >.spam. >I post what is relevant, unlike this post of yours, which has NOTHING >to do with MTBing! I am thus not spamming. >.how to download all the usernames from email lists >.at cycling.org so that they could be spammed. Then you >Communication is not spamming. I advocate communication. Besides, I am >not Dot.

Yes, but your relative Yakovov Vandeman PAID FOR THE ACCOUNT!!!! One of thiese days you are gonna piss off a person more psycho than you….I hope you dont get hurt! Scott —

Response:

That MV dude wrote >I post what is relevant, unlike this post of yours, which has NOTHING >to do with MTBing! I am thus not spamming.

Yeah, it’s not spamming…IF YOU POST IT ***ONCE***!  How come I’ve read this same infernal message about a MILLION times (only a slight exaggeration).  Have a day. -Kristin Pilotte Mountain biker, Environmentalist http://members.aol.com/viper7997

Response:

>It was an AOL employee who told Todd Ourston. It’s in the FAQ. BTW, I

Seems to me that this "AOL employee" had violated a company trust. Do we know his name? IF AOL employees are releasing personal information about AOL account holders it opens up an entirely new series of questions. >seriously doubt that being told this will change your opinion on the >situation, like Mike, you’ve already closed your mind on this topic and

Well Brad I wouldn’t be so quick to make judgements like that. No, I’m not convinced you’re being harassed as I believe that you could, if you chose to, ignore Mr. Vandeman or enter into reasonable discussion with him. But you guys find some perverse pleasure in posting some really virulent and hateful stuff. You’d think you’d get that all worked out on the trail… >ps: I had personal email from AOL telling me that Vandeman’s accounts there >(mjvvv and dotmorriso) were both canceled, and so did Dave Blake. It’s >a big conspiracy, just like the MEN IN THE BLACK HELICOPTERS.

Would you care to share that with us again, headers and all, or is it also part of the FAQ? J — Bongo Boy is the guy your parents warned you about! [www.bongoboy.com]

Response:

>  Don’t let the hatred and aggressive acts of Vandeman’s keep us > from continuing to work with environmental groups on shared issues!

Good point.  The only thing that Vandeman has accomplished is turning people off of trail maintenance and impact issues. I would venture to say that he has done more harm than good for his "causes". Anthony — "Things that upset a terrier may pass virtually unnoticed by a Great Dane."       Smiley Blanton

Response:

>>The evidence. The first time Mike got access from AOL revoked, we >were told that short of credit card fraud, Mike Vandeman would not >get another account there. >I’m curious. You say "we were told…" Who told us? Was it an AOL employee?

It is all in the FAQ at http://www.keck.ucsf.edu/~dblake/vand.html Including the name of the AOL employee who made that remark. — Dave Blake http://www.keck.ucsf.edu/~dblake/

Response:

>The evidence. The first time Mike got access from AOL revoked, we >were told that short of credit card fraud, Mike Vandeman would not >get another account there.

I’m curious. You say "we were told…" Who told us? Was it an AOL employee? Mike’s bank manager? This is the ‘net after all and I can say I’m anyone I want. J — Bongo Boy is the guy your parents warned you about! [www.bongoboy.com]

Response:

. .> .> .>.I’ve been subscribing to rbo-r for a few months now and have seen the name .> .>.Mike Vandeman (always in negative context) a zillion times posted and .> .still .> .>.have no idea who the fuck this dude is. Fill me in? .> . .> .>One of the few people with the guts to tell the truth about mountain .> .>biking. .> . .> .The truth ? The truth ? You can’t handle the truth !! .> . .> .You used a false name on a credit card to resubscribe to AOL. .> .Liar. .> .> That’s a lie. Besides, AOL doesn’t give out that information, .> obviously. .> . .The evidence. The first time Mike got access from AOL revoked, we .were told that short of credit card fraud, Mike Vandeman would not .get another account there. So, they lied to you. Why not? You do it to everyone else. .Second, the accounts dotmorriso, chandra884, muddauber2, and yukikov .were opened in the name Yukikov Vandeman. Not true.  These accounts were used .for spam almost identical to that Mike has performed in the past, such .as mailbombing subscribers to cycling.org mailing lists with "Wildlife and .the Ecocity." Further, dotmorriso downloaded usernames that worked .at an accounting firm. Mike Vandeman called that accounting firm to .complain. These are not lies, and I offer anyone to draw their own .conclusions. Such as what? That Dot gave me the information? .> .You spammed dozens of cycling.org mailing lists with 23K of .> ."Wildlife and the Ecocity", and denied posting those emails .> .> Sending a message after subscribing to a list is not "spamming". . .You crashed the server with the message !!!! It isn’t MY fault that their softeware is buggy!  The list organizers .made it abundantly clear that your message was too long for .that type of distribution. After the fact? I never saw any such information.  That was back in the mjvvv days. . .More recently you subscribed to the list but instead sent the 23k email .to the list subscribers instead of through the list. You mean Dot did? You shouldn’t make statements that you can’t back up.  The act is the same .and is still spam whether you sent it through the list or not. There .were dozens of complaints about the message to the list maintainers. . .> .You claimed that when a biker hops on a bike, the pressure .> .on the contact patch increases to 7 or 8 times that of .> .the internal tire pressure before loading. It does not. .> .Liar. .> .> I never said that. . .Ha ha ha ha. . .Here is a relevant quote. . .That is why the tire pressure increases when you multiple .the weight it is carrying by 7 or 8 times by getting on the bike. .That is OBVIOUS. Measure yours and give us a report! . You misread my statement, as anyone who can read can see! I didn’t say the pressure increases 7-8 times! I said that WHEN the weight increases 7-8 times, the pressure on the ground increases. Learn to read!. .> .how to download all the usernames from email lists .> .at cycling.org so that they could be spammed. Then you .> .> Communication is not spamming. I advocate communication. Besides, I am .> not Dot. . .The evidence is above. Spamming by definition is communication. .How is it possible that spamming is not communication ?? You again misread me. All spamming is communication, but not all communication is spamming. It is a big waste of time to try to get through your dense head. .> .You claim to be working for pure habitat, while you spend .> .99.9% of your efforts working only on getting MTB trail .> .access revoked. .> .> That is an obvious lie, sinc eyou have no idea how I spend my time. . .I can see what you do on Usenet. But not what I do at other times. .> .You claim that no one on this newsgroup has any idea .> .where you work. In the FAQ there is a listing of .> .your job title, office location, and cubicle number. .> .You work for Pacbell. Liar. .> .> Not really. Many different companies are in that building. . .Here is a quote from your personnel profile. I guess you wouldalso call this a lie, if it were not actually true. . .Full Name:  Vandeman, M. J. (Mike) .Job Title:  Sys. Anal. (Technical) .Department:  Network Services Group .Company: Pacific Bell It’s not up to date or accurate. It is really interesting that some idiot thought it was worth risking his/her job at Pac Bell to post confidential information on the ‘net. .> Mr. Blake maintains a so-called "Vandeman FAQ" that is just as full of .> lies. He has had to remove several articles already which were .> libelous, and should remove the rest. . .Stop already. You have been made an open offer to donate a directed .reply at any article to the FAQ, to be posted next to the article .that offends you. That is more than enough consideration for .your opinions. Not according to the law. If you post lies, you are liable. Please remove Lance Montauk’s letter, BTW. It is libelous. Why did you remove the Bike article? Because it’s libelous, or because you violated copyright?Or both? — I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8 years fighting auto dependence and road construction.) http://www.imaja.com/change/environment/mvarticles

Response:

.>.I’ve been subscribing to rbo-r for a few months now and have seen the name .>.Mike Vandeman (always in negative context) a zillion times posted and .still .>.have no idea who the fuck this dude is. Fill me in? . .>One of the few people with the guts to tell the truth about mountain .>biking. . .The truth ? The truth ? You can’t handle the truth !! . .You used a false name on a credit card to resubscribe to AOL. .Liar. That’s a lie. Besides, AOL doesn’t give out that information, obviously. .You spammed dozens of cycling.org mailing lists with 23K of ."Wildlife and the Ecocity", and denied posting those emails Sending a message after subscribing to a list is not "spamming". .You forged email from Brad Anders to make it look as though .he sends email to your work account. He kept the original .email message to show you to be what you are. Liar. Pure BS. .You claimed that when a biker hops on a bike, the pressure .on the contact patch increases to 7 or 8 times that of .the internal tire pressure before loading. It does not. .Liar. I never said that. .You claim you are not harassing this newsgroup when there .are records of hundreds of uncalled for insults, .accusations of lying (mostly false), and, quite simply, .spam. I post what is relevant, unlike this post of yours, which has NOTHING to do with MTBing! I am thus not spamming. .how to download all the usernames from email lists .at cycling.org so that they could be spammed. Then you Communication is not spamming. I advocate communication. Besides, I am not Dot. .You claim to be working for pure habitat, while you spend .99.9% of your efforts working only on getting MTB trail .access revoked. That is an obvious lie, sinc eyou have no idea how I spend my time. .You claim, in contrast to a journalist who won a Pulitzer .prize for covering the scandal, that Synanon, of which .you were a member, is not a cult. Liar. The Pulitzer Prize has been discredited many times. It is BS. Those articles are still nothing but yellow journalism. .You claim that no one on this newsgroup has any idea .where you work. In the FAQ there is a listing of .your job title, office location, and cubicle number. .You work for Pacbell. Liar. Not really. Many different companies are in that building. Mr. Blake maintains a so-called "Vandeman FAQ" that is just as full of lies. He has had to remove several articles already which were libelous, and should remove the rest. — I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8 years fighting auto dependence and road construction.) http://www.imaja.com/change/environment/mvarticles

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > .>.I’ve been subscribing to rbo-r for a few months now and have seen the name > .>.Mike Vandeman (always in negative context) a zillion times posted and > .still > .>.have no idea who the fuck this dude is. Fill me in? > . > .>One of the few people with the guts to tell the truth about mountain > .>biking. > . > .The truth ? The truth ? You can’t handle the truth !! > . > .You used a false name on a credit card to resubscribe to AOL. > .Liar. > That’s a lie. Besides, AOL doesn’t give out that information, > obviously.

The evidence. The first time Mike got access from AOL revoked, we were told that short of credit card fraud, Mike Vandeman would not get another account there. Second, the accounts dotmorriso, chandra884, muddauber2, and yukikov were opened in the name Yukikov Vandeman. These accounts were used for spam almost identical to that Mike has performed in the past, such as mailbombing subscribers to cycling.org mailing lists with "Wildlife and the Ecocity." Further, dotmorriso downloaded usernames that worked at an accounting firm. Mike Vandeman called that accounting firm to complain. These are not lies, and I offer anyone to draw their own conclusions. > .You spammed dozens of cycling.org mailing lists with 23K of > ."Wildlife and the Ecocity", and denied posting those emails > Sending a message after subscribing to a list is not "spamming".

You crashed the server with the message !!!! The list organizers made it abundantly clear that your message was too long for that type of distribution. That was back in the mjvvv days. More recently you subscribed to the list but instead sent the 23k email to the list subscribers instead of through the list. The act is the same and is still spam whether you sent it through the list or not. There were dozens of complaints about the message to the list maintainers. > .You forged email from Brad Anders to make it look as though > .he sends email to your work account. He kept the original > .email message to show you to be what you are. Liar. > Pure BS.

Brad has already posted an account of this to rec.bicycles.off-road. > .You claimed that when a biker hops on a bike, the pressure > .on the contact patch increases to 7 or 8 times that of > .the internal tire pressure before loading. It does not. > .Liar. > I never said that.

Ha ha ha ha. Here is a relevant quote. That is why the tire pressure increases when you multiple the weight it is carrying by 7 or 8 times by getting on the bike. That is OBVIOUS. Measure yours and give us a report! > .how to download all the usernames from email lists > .at cycling.org so that they could be spammed. Then you > Communication is not spamming. I advocate communication. Besides, I am > not Dot.

The evidence is above. Spamming by definition is communication. How is it possible that spamming is not communication ?? > .You claim to be working for pure habitat, while you spend > .99.9% of your efforts working only on getting MTB trail > .access revoked. > That is an obvious lie, sinc eyou have no idea how I spend my time.

I can see what you do on Usenet. > .You claim that no one on this newsgroup has any idea > .where you work. In the FAQ there is a listing of > .your job title, office location, and cubicle number. > .You work for Pacbell. Liar. > Not really. Many different companies are in that building.

Here is a quote from your personnel profile. I guess you wouldalso call this a lie, if it were not actually true. Full Name:  Vandeman, M. J. (Mike) Job Title:  Sys. Anal. (Technical) Department:  Network Services Group Company: Pacific Bell > Mr. Blake maintains a so-called "Vandeman FAQ" that is just as full of > lies. He has had to remove several articles already which were > libelous, and should remove the rest.

Stop already. You have been made an open offer to donate a directed reply at any article to the FAQ, to be posted next to the article that offends you. That is more than enough consideration for your opinions. Dave Blake

Response:

>.I’ve been subscribing to rbo-r for a few months now and have seen the name >.Mike Vandeman (always in negative context) a zillion times posted and still >.have no idea who the fuck this dude is. Fill me in? >One of the few people with the guts to tell the truth about mountain >biking.

The truth ? The truth ? You can’t handle the truth !! You used a false name on a credit card to resubscribe to AOL. Liar. You spammed dozens of cycling.org mailing lists with 23K of "Wildlife and the Ecocity", and denied posting those emails You forged email from Brad Anders to make it look as though he sends email to your work account. He kept the original email message to show you to be what you are. Liar. You claimed the Supreme Court made a ruling about GGNRA and mountain bikes. It was really the 9th Circuit Court. Liar. You claimed that when a biker hops on a bike, the pressure on the contact patch increases to 7 or 8 times that of the internal tire pressure before loading. It does not. Liar. You claim you are not harassing this newsgroup when there are records of hundreds of uncalled for insults, accusations of lying (mostly false), and, quite simply, how to download all the usernames from email lists at cycling.org so that they could be spammed. Then you You claim to be working for pure habitat, while you spend 99.9% of your efforts working only on getting MTB trail access revoked. And your favorite activities are hiking and camping in wilderness. Hypocrite and liar. You claim, in contrast to a journalist who won a Pulitzer prize for covering the scandal, that Synanon, of which you were a member, is not a cult. Liar. You claim that no one on this newsgroup has any idea where you work. In the FAQ there is a listing of your job title, office location, and cubicle number. You work for Pacbell. Liar. You claim to be concerned about wildlife habitat, yet for years and years you kept your cat outdoors. See Jack Pine’s web page for details on the nature of the destruction your cats reaped in your neighborhood. Ignorant hypocrite. — Dave Blake http://www.keck.ucsf.edu/~dblake/

Response:

>I have seen hundreds of attempts to explain Mikro Vandeman.  Nobody >else has ever come this close.  Congradulations!

Michael Joseph Vandeman is a 50 something hiker. He lives in Berkeley, and claims to have been a boy scout. He loves being in wilderness by his own admission, and loves to camp and hike. He feels that biking is incompatible with hiking and enjoying wilderness, and he will use any argument he can find to try to validate this personal belief. He typically argues that mountain biking is more damaging to wildlife – despite the total lack of evidence from existing studies, and testimony of employed PhD wildlife ecologists on the topic. He is not concerned with the replies to him on Usenet – as long as his threads take up bandwidth he is happy. He is preventing MTBers from enjoying Usenet, which turns him on. Something has to – he has no kids, has never mentioned a significant other, and only has one cat left which he used to keep outside where it could harass wildlife. To deal with Vandeman, first stop the cross-posting !!! Reply to Mike only in the newsgroup in which you read him. The replies are destructive if they are cross-posted. Better yet, save your breath, and compile some of Mike’s many foot-in-mouth episodes for the FAQ, at http://www.keck.ucsf.edu/~dblake/vand.html — Dave Blake http://www.keck.ucsf.edu/~dblake/

Response:

.I’ve been subscribing to rbo-r for a few months now and have seen the name .Mike Vandeman (always in negative context) a zillion times posted and still .have no idea who the fuck this dude is. Fill me in? One of the few people with the guts to tell the truth about mountain biking. — I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8 years fighting auto dependence and road construction.) http://www.imaja.com/change/environment/mvarticles

Response:

(Header Snipped)         >I’ve been subscribing to rbo-r for a few months now and have seen the name >Mike Vandeman (always in negative context) a zillion times posted and still >have no idea who the fuck this dude is. Fill me in? Not that I really give a >shit but I just feel left out of the loop! >ben

        Sit back and watch the fireworks.  Lots of opinions ready to be flung around.  Please read Mike V’s posts, then check out the faq.  Should answer most of the questions. James

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->I’ve been subscribing to rbo-r for a few months now and have seen the > name >Mike Vandeman (always in negative context) a zillion times posted and > still >have no idea who the fuck this dude is. Fill me in? Not that I really > give a >shit but I just feel left out of the loop! >ben >    Remember your friends little brother that wouldn’t shut up?Or go > away?Or everhad a clue what he was talking about?He is now on line. >      Remember how you delt with his kind?IGNORE  IGNORE IGNORE…..then > call him names and try to grope his sister in the basement.

I have seen hundreds of attempts to explain Mikro Vandeman.  Nobody else has ever come this close.  Congradulations! Bram

Response: